Cloud Reset – The Podcast | Episode 7: The AI Calls You Make in 2025 Will Make or Break You by 2030 with Steven Worrall
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Episode Summary:
Fast forward to 2030—your organisation has fully embraced AI, gaining a competitive edge, streamlined processes, and maximised productivity. But how did you get there?
The Cloud Reset podcast kicks off 2025 with a bang! In this new series, hosts Naran McClung and Jono Staff welcome Steven Worrall, Managing Director of Microsoft Australia & New Zealand, to unpack the future of AI adoption in Australia.
Together, they explore:
🚀 AI in 2030 – What will businesses look like in five years, and how do we get there?
⚡ Australia’s AI Race – Are we keeping up, or falling behind global competition?
🔍 AI Adoption Challenges – Risk profiles, data governance, and the skills gap.
🏗️ Digital Infrastructure & Skills – The role of government, industry collaboration, and the rise of “digital tradies.”
🔮 Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) – When will it arrive, and how will it reshape industries?
🎧 Tune in now to learn how proactive, technology-driven leadership decisions in Australia can turn AI challenges into transformational opportunities.
Episode Transcript:
All right, Jono, we’re back. It’s uh, it’s 2025. We are refreshed. We’ve had a wonderful break, I’m going to assume. I know I did. I’m pretty motivated and pumped about this year for lots of different reasons. Not in part due to this wonderful podcast that’s going to take a whole new direction with, can I just say, a different breed of guests joining us.
Yeah, this is gonna be huge. I think it’s gonna be our best series yet. I’m pretty excited. It was a good break Refreshed, relaxed, poised and ready. What have you been doing? Ready to attack. You know, just awesome. Awesome holiday actually down south Mm hmm. Kiama. Wonderful. Kiama, the beach. Let’s go.
You’ve got a wonderful glow about you too, can I just say?
Thank you. Likewise. And yeah, look, new guests I would say, uh, incredible leaders in our industry, and we’re looking forward to getting some real insights around how Australian business and our listeners can get ahead with AI. So bring it on. Bring it on. Okay, Naran. So picture this. We’re all going to be time travelers.
What does that mean? Fast forward five years. Your business has AI at its core. You’re more competitive. You’re more productive. You’re better equipped than ever. To deliver value to your market segment. How did you get there? Let’s work backwards. Let’s go back in time and figure that out and map the path to a successful future together.
Questions we might ask include what infrastructure investments are critical to support AI at scale? How might you identify and fill the AI skills gap? That you’re going to need desperately to feel to get there. What role does data sovereignty and regulation play in driving success? Probably interested in staying one step ahead of that.
So keen to dive into that. Uh, what decisions might you be able to make today, right now to position yourself in your business? for AI success in the future. So let’s all go on a bit of a time traveling journey, work backwards, figure it out, and, uh, and get better at this.
Let’s get started.
Okay. So today, uh, it is my great pleasure to announce our guest. Our guest spent roughly 22 years working for IBM in various capacities. He then joined Microsoft in 2014 as Director for Enterprise and Partner Group, and he was responsible for business growth and building strong customer and partner relationships.
To then take on the role of Managing Director for Microsoft Australia and New Zealand, it’s my great pleasure to introduce Steven Worrall. Welcome to the podcast.
It’s fantastic to be here. Excellent. Thank you so much for the invitation.
Pleasure. for having me. I heard
you two are the Roy and HG of the tech industry.
Is that, is that true?
Look, I think it’s going that way. I, uh, I don’t know, Jono. Are you comfortable with that? They’re a bit older than us, dude.
Well, look. I you even know who Roy and HG are?
Yes, I do. I do remember the ratings that they got when they commented on the Olympics. There you go. So maybe, you know.
So you know who they are. That’s good. We know who they are. That’s right. In fact,
actually I was, I was working and it’s 2000 Olympics NBC and I was on a contract in there and I used to remember seeing those guys work through the halls when I started my shift. They look pretty tired as they walk through and they did a lot of work with makeup before they got on camera.
I can assure you. So they needed some work too. So you’re
going to stay in tech. I guess that’s what you’re saying. Yes. That’s okay. Fair enough.
So thank you for joining us. It’s my pleasure. Um, now we’ve, what are we talking about today, Jono?
Well, let me talk you through it because it is, I, I think it’s actually pretty interesting and we’re really keen to hear your opinions on this.
And really what we’re trying to do is become time travelers. So we’re trying to fast forward five years. Yeah. And it’s a bit of thought exercise. We want to, we want to take the view that, you know, imagine your business is already completely embraced. AI, you’re doing it really well, you’re more competitive, you’re more productive, you’re better equipped than ever before to serve your customers.
But how did you actually get there? Let’s reverse engineer, go back five years and what do the steps actually look like? And let’s bring to life some of the things that we can do right now. To set us on the right path. So that’s really the conversation that we’re going to get into today.
Sounds exciting.
All right, Steven. Um, you know, getting into that, it’s, uh, you know, it’s pretty well known. You finished up 2024 with the Microsoft AI tour and something that Naran and I thought might be a great conversation for our listeners. Is your view around AI adoption in Australia? Where are we at? What’s the sentiment?
You know, what are you seeing in the market? Is there confidence compared to other markets that Microsoft operate in? How does Australia fare? We’d love to have a discussion on that.
Yeah, well, it’s uh, it’s the topic of the day and probably the topic of the year, isn’t it? In terms of, um, the adoption of what we see is such a fundamental change in the tech industry.
And of course, also the potential that it promises to change everything, uh, in business, but everything in terms of how we live our lives and the way in which we interact with so many different parts of, of, of society. And so it’s a fascinating time. First thing to say, I think to be in the industry because The opportunity is amazing, and yet at the same time, as you’re sort of pointing towards, there are lots of things that we have to do to make the most of it, because there are very different trajectories in different countries around the world in terms of adoption and speed as it relates to AI.
Um, so I might just start there. I mean, I think in Australia we’re seeing, um, deep levels of interest. And we saw that reflected at the AI tour both here in Sydney and of course the one we ran in New Zealand. Um, and we’ve had similar events all around the world. Um, and fair to say, comparatively speaking, great deal of interest here in Australia and New Zealand because we, uh, advanced economies, uh, to economies who, uh, admittedly need to find ways to grow and to drive productivity.
And I think at a very superficial level, there’s a deep understanding that AI is probably going to play some role in helping us to find the way forward. So that would be the first thought. The second thought with that said, we’re seeing other countries move much faster than Australia and New Zealand.
And I think that goes to the heart of the risk profile that a lot of people in business or in decision making roles have. that, um, for good reasons, our government, um, our larger enterprises want to think through deeply what are the implications for the use of the technology so that they don’t end up on the front page of a newspaper for all the wrong reasons.
And so while that is understandable, um, there are other countries that have different settings in terms of risk profile. And we’re seeing countries around Asia in particular, many emerging markets, in fact, not just in Asia, but around the world, looking at this as an opportunity, not just to, to drive their own productivity, but also as an opportunity to leapfrog.
And I think that’s one thought that we have to keep in our mind here in Australia and New Zealand is, um, of course we need to be measured. We need to be thoughtful, clear eyed about the use of the technology, but we also have to acknowledge that we’re in a competitive environment and we have to keep an eye on how other economies and other organisations are thinking about the technology.
Um, last quick thought I’ll, I’ll share and then we can go a bit deeper in any of these areas that you think is of interest, is that I think, um, to your first point about what would, you know, five years out from now, if you look back, what would have been the thing that might’ve been the turning point, um, there’s probably several categories of topics to talk about there, but the one that comes to mind as the most important is just actually using the technology.
Um, in whatever form that might be for any particular individual listening to this podcast. Uh, or as I encourage my clients, I’m still amazed when I walk into a boardroom, I talk to executives. Many of them have a point of view on AI that’s not informed by their own use of the technology. And I mean, AI is a broad category.
So of course, what do you mean by using AI? It can be the simple consumer applications we see today. It can be applications inside organisations. But I think the fundamental thing, uh, that. Uh, that every organisation, particularly every leader needs to think about is, uh, yes, of course I have a point of view, but based on actual use and actual experience.
And so I would just encourage everyone, um, find a way to actually start using the technology, if you’re not already, to then start to lead you down the path of, okay, how am I going to apply this most effectively in the business?
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Listen, I wholeheartedly agree. Um, I. I love it when technologies have a natural momentum and what I’m seeing now is that I would say if I look at our own customer base, they’re quite deliberative around where are they now, where do they need to be.
And if I look at the conversations we’re having, uh, it is around data governance, data platform. And fabric is exploding. I mean, we are being drawn to it. It seems to have its own gravity and we’re being asked questions around fabric and best practice. And how can we take advantage of this? I think in full anticipation of certainly within our own customer base.
customers and businesses wanting to embrace co pilot and embracing this concept of an agentic world. I hadn’t heard that term, by the way, since I went to Chicago and we were indoctrinated for a week. And I say that in a good way, by the way, with Microsoft around where this technology is going. And so.
I’ve just got back from Brisbane. As of yesterday, I met with two different customers, both of which wanted to speak to me about Fabric and how to embrace it and how to get there. And the so what of all of that is how to embrace generative AI within those businesses.
Yeah, you bet, you bet. I mean, um, whether you talk about Fabric or you talk about Copilot, um, the reality is AI as a category is not really going to deliver any value.
Um, or the value that it creates is a direct relationship to the, the quality of the data that it reasons over. Uh, and as simple as that is to say, um, still many organisations are working through how do they get their data estate into the cloud, or at least into a form where it is available for, um, agentic capability or AI services to then reason over.
Um, and so you, you talk about data governance, you talk about policy, these are all really, really important discussions, uh, and I want to emphasize, Just how important I think it is for executive leaders to also be personally in on the field. Um, because this isn’t a time to be sitting back and talking about business strategy and talking about the possibilities, referencing what other people are doing.
Um, what we’re seeing is industries, organisations, countries moving at pace. And so the question I think for all of us is. Uh, and again, in a thoughtful, responsible way, because you, you, you have to do this well, but we, we, we are in a race. Let’s just understand that as a nation and each organisation in their own industry.
And so, uh, 2025 is a massive year for all of us.
Steven, I’m going to be honest. I love that it’s hard and I know that Microsoft is a partner first organisation. And the fact that it is difficult and these technologies lend themselves to MSP and Acumen and help is a wonderful thing. We love that, right?
Like if our customers could do all of this on their own, what would you and I do, Jono, other than podcast? Podcast, I think you’ve got it all sorted out. We could talk about doing it.
Yeah, some of your points, you made just really resonate with me. There’s an analogy getting around and, um, you know, I first heard it actually from Michael Dell talking around the concept of AI factories and your data being the raw materials.
You know, and you can, you can really look at it like a, like a factory and the output obviously being some kind of AI, AI insight outcome. Um, so fabric is really like, that’s where we’re seeing a lot of interest, you know, people trying to get their data into shape where it’s, it’s a raw material that they can actually digest.
And the other point that, you know, um, less developed countries, maybe with less regulation, looking at it as an opportunity to really get ahead and leapfrog. That’s sort of something that I hadn’t really considered, you know, and how do you get the balance between being deliberative and safe and, and, uh, and also being fast.
You know, how do you go fast? So yeah, a really interesting thing to think about.
I might quick comment there. We saw that last year, right, with the Senate has been running a a committee, uh, into the ethical and appropriate use of the technology as, as they should, right? And many countries around the world have had similar reviews.
And as an Australian citizen, I think that’s a fantastic and appropriate thing for our government to do, to work out what are the terms under which we apply this technology. How do we protect ourselves from some of the risks that the technology presents, um, in elections for argument’s sake, right? So deep fakes and The use of technology to influence the outcomes of elections is a big concern for all of us.
And so it’s a great example where you think, yes, we want government to be deeply involved in understanding the settings for the technology and helping to provide those guardrails. And our government is doing just that. In the same breath, we have to talk about the economic opportunity. Because if we focus on the, on the risk side and we get it, we get that perfect, but do it at the exclusion of or to the detriment of the settings that are then needed to think about how do we use this to drive economic growth?
How do we think about productivity? How do we think about participation? How do we, um, think about our competitive positioning in industries? Um, then that’s where, uh, we might, Um, you know, in five years time, look back and think, Ah, we missed the trick. Did we get it wrong?
Yeah, the opportunity cost could be massive.
Steven, you’ve opened the door. I’m going to have to ask a question on general intelligence. Now, you must get asked this. Oh my gosh. I have to ask the question. It’s, I mean, look, all the YouTube clips that I watch or the, the AI influencers talk about this deal between OpenAI and Microsoft whereby there is a hidden definition of general intelligence.
I’m here to offer our audience today, you’re going to tell us what that is. The
hidden definition of general intelligence. The hidden
definition of general intelligence that apparently exists between OpenAI and Microsoft the secret herbs and spices. I, I jest. Apparently this thing is real. But I think, um, it will be fascinating to see.
I mean, five years from now. Will general intelligence be a real thing?
Yeah, I mean there have been so many forecasts of when AGI will be delivered, and, you know, AGI being the equivalent of a human brain, or at least the capacity that equates to how we might function. Um, look, Uh, the last, the last estimate I heard was somewhere between three to five years, but I’ve heard that estimate for the last three years.
And so, um, there’s no question November 2022 was a pivotal moment because till that point, generative AI was, was a concept. And then we became introduced to the reality of how powerful it was. Uh, I think generative AI surprised, uh, many people in terms of the capabilities. And yet at the same time, uh, AGI is still, is still a way off.
So, um, look, we’ll, I think we’ll see it before too soon. And, um, back to the questions that we’re sort of posing here and considering in terms of what, what things, what are things going to look like in five years time. Um, we, we need to be prepared for what that might then represent and what that might present to, to businesses as opportunities to leverage.
Yeah. It’s exciting. I
think, yeah. And talking about. You know, I think Australia getting ahead, right? There’s a, there’s a huge focus on skills and how, uh, skills are going to need to adapt and change. And I know, um, you know, you’re, you’ve been quite vocal and involved in a few different programs and actually leading a few programs around this.
Some of the recent press was around Microsoft launching a new AI skills program, uh, and diverse, you know, pathways into the industry. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and, and what that might mean for our listeners and, um, how that’s going to impact the future? How can they capitalize on that?
Yeah, you bet. Well, look, uh, back to the beginning where you talked about what in five years looking back, what, what would we have needed to have done? One thing I’m pointing towards is that Uh, again, for leaders, people in business, having a personal point of view, the second, uh, on that list would be then creating the conditions by which more people can become familiar with the use of the technology.
So they’re related, that is, if more of us have a deep understanding or at least a personal understanding of how the technology impacts on your job. Puts you in a position then to potentially influence how that might be provided as an opportunity more broadly through that business or that organisation.
And so skills, providing access to those pathways is crucial. I serve as the chair of the New South Wales Skills Board, so here in New South Wales. But much of what I’m about to say applies to our work around the country with other state and federal government, as it does in New Zealand. But the work with NSW government, based on some research that the tech council put together just a couple of years ago, suggested that the NSW economy would be 85, 000 short in terms of digital skills by 2030.
Now this research was done in 2023, and oh my gosh, a lot’s changed in two years, but there still is a very clear gap in terms of the digital capability in our economy to do what we need to do in New South Wales. You can imagine those numbers as you look at the national level, it’s about 300, 000. And so working with the state government and then with a number of other employers and other members of the tech industry, AWS and Salesforce to name two, we’re working together as a collective to create more of those pathways to bring more people into the sector.
Um, the Institute, um, of Applied Technology out at Meadowbank, this purpose built facility of the New South Wales Government, is emerging of our tertiary and vocational sectors. So, um, UTS Macquarie, um, and obviously New South Wales TAFE coming together to create, it’s a 158 million purpose built facility.
If you haven’t been out there, you should go and have a look. It’s awesome. It’s, it is the centre for all things digital in New South Wales. It provides a physical campus, but of course connects digitally to all of the other TAFE centers around the state. And the idea being, whether it’s an online class for an hour, or a three month course in cyber, and everything in between, to provide access for people who are already at work, the opportunity to pick up the new skills that are necessary for them to get into the digital economy, or to get the next job in the digital economy if they’re already there.
And, you know, we, we kicked that off that, um, Institute of Applied Technology just 18 months ago, probably two years ago now, uh, and we’ve seen tens of thousands of enrollees in digital. digital courses, picking up new skills that will be essential to drive our economy forward in future. And so, um, that’s the work we’re doing with industry.
We also have our own program. We’ve committed to skill 300, 000 Australians in all things digital. That was a commitment we made back in 2023 with the prime minister. Um, I can tell you today in January of 25, we’ve already ticked that box. So 300, 000 Australians have taken advantage of free programs, free training from, uh, from Microsoft.
Um, last month at the AI tour, we announced that we’d extend that to a million Australians and Kiwis going forward over the next three years. Um, again, free training and access to the, the repertoire of skills that we have online to help people pick up the skills that they need to participate in the digital economy.
And so, you know, to put a fine point on it, um, technology, AI is just the latest, uh, wave. It’s just the latest industrial revolution, and I don’t mean to diminish it by saying that. But what has proven to be true over previous industrial revolutions is it’s the use of that technology. It’s the skills that the users of that technology have and how it is put to, um, into service that has determined how well that economy, how well that organisation or how well that economy has profited and benefited from that revolution.
And so that I think is the key for us here in Australia and New Zealand to think deeply about skills.
I love that.
I think that’s a, it’s a total game changer. Um, I’m familiar with that site. I’m actually a graduate of TAFE New South Wales. This is, I would say, this is back when TAFE was. was great and a Cisco Academy.
There you go. And it was a similar initiative, vocational education and training. Yes. And, uh, I actually graduated, you know, high school, year 12 with a Cert II in IT and went straight in. That’s awesome. To network engineering, never looked back. Yep. That was my pathway in. Fantastic. And, uh, and I have been sort of sad to see the decline of TAFE in tech contributing to our industries because Uh, it, it did a lot for me when it was really firing and I’m actually surprised not, I feel like not enough people know about what you’re up to out there and reviving that campus and, um, and those opportunities.
So I’m hoping, uh, our listeners can take something from that.
Well, it’s the New South Wales government and it’s all credit to them. It was their, um, their investment that obviously triggered all of this and made it possible. Um, and we’re seeing the same level of interest in, in state governments all across the country.
Um, but fantastic to hear that you’re a graduate of that system because it is, it is at the heart of what needs to happen in Australia right now. We need digital tradies. We need digital skills across the board.
I couldn’t agree more.
Everyone who’s got a job in whatever industry they’re in today is, they’re going to need more digital skills in future than, than they’ve had in the past.
And they’re not going to take three years off to go to university to do a degree, because they’ve got a family, they’ve got a mortgage, they’ve got a life. Uh, and so, um, TAFE, vocational system is the answer.
Digital tradies, I love that.
I like that. Yeah, exactly. Bringing, bringing it back to the working man once more.
Yeah, there you go. Well, look, what better way to match skills and investments in skills with adoption of technology, I would say an investment. Uh, Steven, one of your announcements, uh, the extended zone for Azure in Western Australia. Um, we have wonderful customers, uh, shout out to Aaron Tighe, who heads out our, heads up, sorry, our Western Australian business.
Um, there’s a lot of excitement and buzz. We’ve been waiting for this one for a long time. I have to assume that there are many requests for this, Steven, over a number of years, I would have to assume. Some of which from us. Talk us through that.
Yeah, I think I’m laughing because, uh, oh my gosh, there’s been so much investment in, uh, the, the data center and digital infrastructure sector, hasn’t there?
And, and just here in Australia, all the, all the buzz around, um, uh, Robyn’s business, Airtrunk, um, CDC, NextDC, and our announcement, we announced 5 billion of investment with the Prime Minister just, um, what was it now, 15 months ago. Uh, and then you’ve got all the other hyperscalers as well, right? And so, massive investment, and all over the world.
And part of my job here is to attract as much capital as I can to the country. Uh, and we’ve been trying to get a site into WA for a long time. A long time. Uh, I’m, um, I’m delighted that we’re finally there. Uh, it’s a, um, we have regions on the east coast. This is, this is a satellite or an edge, edge location.
Uh, but we hope over time to continue to build that out. Because, um, a country like Australia has, um, we have deep, uh, compute capacity requirement. We have unique challenges around geography, just given the, um, the size of the country. And we have, uh, industry, uh, major industries in, uh, very remote parts of the country.
And so. Um, this is also part of the reason why we have such a, an important partnership with Telstra because we’ve announced that we, um, are investing in their intercity fiber network, which we think is crucial digital infrastructure that will go alongside these data centers to ensure that Australians, uh, today, and Western Australians in particular, can benefit and participate in the digital economy, uh, but also know that the digital economy.
Um, the railway tracks, if you think about this is a, it’s a revolution, uh, go back to the, um, a hundred years ago when, um, across the US we, they were building out their, um, the rail line to, to, um, to underpin part of their, uh, build, economic build out. This isn’t dissimilar in terms of us providing the infrastructure that is going to power our economy, our digital economy in the years to come.
And so first step and, um, more exciting steps to come.
Well, look, it is exciting. It would be remiss of me not to mention that we’re obviously in the data center business ourselves, some notable hyperscalers as customers, um, obviously expanding and growing as fast as possible. I would say out of WA as well, we’re excited about the hybrid opportunities, Jono.
We know that we have a number of opportunities there that will take advantage of the extended zone and allow us to build Azure local and true hybrid architectures. Um, It’s very exciting. It really is.
Absolutely. Like, I think that’s a game changer, that investment, you know. We mentioned pent up demand. If you look at pent up demand and the renewed investments in the roadmap for Azure Local, being able to extend capability out to the edge and address a lot of the OT requirements.
Out, you know, in different, you know, sectors that dominate WA, mining, essential utilities, etc. I think that’s, that’s going to be really, really important. And as those organisations start to think about, again, uh, shaping the data, that raw material into a form that they can take advantage of, or whatever way that, that may come.
You know, having, having a pop out there is going to be really, really critical.
Alright, so I think now is a good time to start talking about the economics of AI at the business level, macro and perhaps national level. Um, We’ve seen some real disparity. So we talked before about, um, playing with AI and technologies, and I know our own business has developed a number of generative AI solutions that have helped us to be scalable, have helped our cyber business.
Um, our SOC digital twin capability has allowed us to deliver a mean time to respond of seven minutes and a mean time to closure somewhere under three minutes, which is astonishing, taking advantage of Open AI and generative AI technologies. Um, and we know through, uh, those projects, um, that we see a real range of cost and expense.
Um, and for us, this one was super efficient. I think serving well over a hundred customers, I think it was costing us only 500 or 600 a month. Which is super lean and super efficient and I was really shocked to hear that. Um, I was expecting the cost to be much greater. Then equally when we look at the adoption of say, um, Copilot for Sentinel, for example.
Um, lots of buzz, lots of interest. We are eagerly awaiting the MSP flavor of that, Steven. You can hear me saying that right now. We’ve been waiting for that. We write that down. We want a fixed date from you here today of when that’s going to be released. But we know that’s going to give us the economies of scale of being able to branch out and allow us to take advantage of that technology, um, on mass, which I think will improve the economies of scale for us.
So there’s a real range there, um, and it’s a lot for businesses to consider. Um, token heavy, token light. Um, and so I just want to get your feel for that as, as businesses seek to embrace these technologies, uh, building out their own business cases, um, how they might tackle that.
You bet. It’s, it’s so interesting because I’ve, I’ve been encouraging through this conversation, this idea that we all need to start using the technology to form our point of view.
And often when I’ve made that comment elsewhere, the What people think they hear is, Oh, well, Steven is suggesting, or the tech industry is suggesting, you just need to buy our technology and start. with it. Um, and the reason I start there is that, um, being thoughtful and clear eyed about the risks, first of all, using the technology safely and responsibly, I think is step one.
And we’ve, we’ve touched on that earlier, but then the business case, the underlying economics becomes the next thing that, that impresses upon our minds. And this idea of testing and trialing and using is more about forming a point of view and testing a hypothesis than it is about going out and, and, and buying at scale the technology.
Because there are many use cases that we’ve seen immediate value has been delivered, uh, with Copilot in, in many cases, not in every industry, but in many categories we’ve seen. immediate benefits. Schools have talked about, you know, hours a week that have been saved for their teachers. The public service have talked about, the DTA have talked about, um, you know, uh, a day a week being saved through the use of the technology in their pilot.
Uh, we’ve had other organisations and financial services make the same comments. Um, that’s one category. We’ve seen others in insurance with, um, claims management, immediate benefits. Because you have the potential, um, to reason over a vast amount of information real time while your agent is talking to your customer.
So immediate benefits and it doesn’t take too long for the business case to close itself there. Yeah. Um, we’ve seen other, um, uh, Other examples, not just in, in sort of insurance in their contact centers, but other contact centers. When you’re thinking about service, Telstra have a great example where they’re using AI solutions to improve the quality of the interaction that they have.
And so those cases are easy because you can see the business value immediately. What we are seeing in other cases, and this is where you need to be clear eyed and thoughtful is then, um, having hypothesis, building a pilot or a POC and then testing it and proving it out. Uh, and, uh, what we’ve, we’ve also seen, we’ve got, I’ve got thousands of those running with clients across our economy today, as you might imagine.
And some are better than others. And so that’s the learning that you start to have as you start to take all of the noise that you might hear in your business about, yes AI could solve all of these problems to get down to, well, what is the actual signal and where can I get the most, uh, impressive or immediate value so that I can prioritize my resources and investment.
Kick some goals and then start to think about more broader adoption.
I really like this. And if I’m, so one of our projects was our, our customer insights project led by, um, our, our illustrious leader, James. Um, and there’s like 11 different models in play. Now, if we had have asked that development team. Um, to clearly map out the direction of the project, uh, in the beginning.
There’s no way they could have assumed the outcome.
Wouldn’t have happened. We figured a lot of stuff out as you iteration.
That’s right. They had to play with it. They had to be given the freedom and the resources to play with it. Um, and the, the outcome, the result came through testing and POC and iteration.
And there’s no way they could have predicted because every model is different. They’ll perform different. Um, Capabilities and that they all have a role to play, but there was no way that they could have formed that judgment without the iteration and without the proof of concepts, as you mentioned, for sure.
Yes, it’s that idea of, you know, encouraging people to get their hands dirty while they’re deliberating. Obviously, you know, be considerate around how to do it safely and responsibly. And then those small incremental investments that I think allow you to fail fast and maybe learn something new.
That’s right.
And look, continuous retraining too. When we talk to our security boys, I mean, they, they are ever retraining, they’re constantly looking at the results and that they are iterating this solution every single week. And I think that’s just the nature of the beast. But for us, the return on investment has been incredible.
Absolutely incredible. And you and I, Jono, we’re thinking, well, how do we industrialize this? How do we take it to market? How can we scale and attract? Uh, and grow more customers.
I’d also say externalise those business cases, which is what we’ve been encouraging our clients to do. And there’s some reluctance to share too much because sometimes there are competitive advantages here.
But the extent to which we as an industry can share and our clients can share those stories, I think that builds the necessary confidence that we’re all looking to see.
And I see parallels there with the way we manage incidents. I know our senior analysts in our SOC team are all part of communities and whenever there is major incidents that happen, I know that they’re They’re openly talking about that, they’re sharing information to the, the betterment of us, to the betterment of other SOCs around the country, and I, I do wonder and I hope that, that AI and generative AI technology adoption can follow a similar path, I really do, because we all benefit from that.
Yeah, I think, I think there’s definitely an element that it’s a team sport, right? We have to, we have to share, uh, to get ahead. And, um, you know, pretty, I’d say just on the economics of this, you know, maybe a macro view. You know, large scale adoption of this technology, um, and I’m sure you’ve got a view on this at Microsoft, just around the broader infrastructure and essential utilities that are required for Australia to be successful as a nation, you know, and thinking through things like energy requirements now or into the future, and, you know, is the right mix of renewables and other means, Um, methods of cooling, infrastructure, you know, you mentioned geographical challenges around where we build this stuff, you know, do you have a view on, you know, five years time or maybe working backwards, you know, what should, what should the Australian government, what should we be thinking about, or people in those sectors be thinking about?
In terms of being ready to support what I think will be a huge wave of adoption in this space.
Um, sure. Um, quick comment on that idea of a team sport. It is a team sport and in terms of getting the use cases out and to proving more stories of success. Um, but let’s not, let’s not miss the fact that, uh, this is a race.
Yeah. Right? And any, any client who might be listening to this will be competing against their comp, their competition in their sector. We’re competing against ours. Australia is competing against other nations who are. determined to use this moment to reposition their, their countries, their nations, their economies.
And so at whatever level you look at this, you can look at this at a unit level of, if you’re an executive in a business, think about your career, how is, how is your career going to progress? Where will you be in five years time? Will you be one of those people that will look back and say, I got here because I was one of the leaders who jumped on this wave, understood it, used it.
and found a path or am I going to be one of those people in five years time that’s going to be looking at the five percent in your industry who are ahead. You can look at it at that level, you can look at it at a, at a department level, you can look at an org level or an industry or a sect or an economy level.
And I think that’s the message that the faster, uh, we all develop our own point of view. And then put it to work in service of our company or, or our industry or our economy, the better. So I’ll just make that quick observation. In terms of, um, uh, our, our digital infrastructure and, and your question there, we have so many natural advantages, whether it’s just space, uh, because in the data center world, increasingly that’s the biggest issue to, is there enough land for us to build these mega, mega centers.
Uh, whether it’s energy, which of course is the other major input, uh, and we have some, some very significant advantages there. So I think a few things come to mind. A coherent, consistent energy policy at a national level obviously is one, is something that has evaded Australia for the last several years and, and we’re about to go into another election to, uh, prosecute, um, the current debate.
And so I’m hopeful that out of this election, we’ll see clarity in terms of The mix in our energy sector and of course the Uh, composition as it relates to, uh, where those energy sources will be located. The nuclear plant obviously locates nuclear plants in existing coal fired, um, uh, energy production zones.
Renewables obviously are dispersed across the country. And so that has an implication in terms of where you might then place digital infrastructure because the closer you place that digital infrastructure to the sources of energy, the better in terms of reducing the transmission costs that might otherwise apply.
Um, and so I think at an industry level, giving signal back to government is crucial in this regard, um, for our large, largest economies. And again, they’re spread all over this wonderful nation. But where do we see those, those requirements going to be in five years time? And this is part of the reason why the WA footprint is so important.
Because clearly Western Australia, or the western edge of our continent is Uh, is either underserved today, that’s one point of view, or the opportunity for it to become a very significant location in future is, is, um, is, is very clear. And so, I think industry has a role to play in sending those signals back to government, and of course, collaborating together, because you’re talking about renewable energy.
Uh, you’re talking about the, uh, the tech sector itself and then you’re talking about industry, the users of the technology coming together to work out where best to create this infrastructure to best serve the needs of the economy.
Yeah. I think that’s really interesting. And you mentioned the election.
I didn’t, so we can go there, but, uh, but yeah, it’s like, you know, the, the nuclear idea is, is super interesting and quite polarizing, I feel. But I know, you know, what are you seeing in other countries? You know, I think I saw something. Something’s pretty interesting to me around, um, You know, nuclear reactors or small nuclear reactors powering entire data centers, I think, out of Europe.
Have you got any thoughts on the future of that technology? Is that something that, um, we could see in five years in Australia? Do you think it’s too soon to know?
Um I won’t, I won’t comment on what we will or won’t see in Australia because that’s, that’s for the politicians and our governments to decide.
Um, I have a personal point of view, but I don’t know that that’s, that’s relevant. I think, um, we’re already seeing nuclear as part of the mix today, of course. It’s powering, um, several large economies around the world. Uh, we, Microsoft has, have signed a contract for the supply of nuclear energy in the U. S.
to power one of our major data centers. Uh, and we think that that’s important and appropriate as we look at our energy mix. Uh, I think logically it will form part of the mix here in Australia over time, um, the exact timings of that, of course, subject to the, to the election and, and, and policy settings, but, um, you look, uh, looking at that broad mix and, um, leveraging the assets and the competitive advantages that we have as a nation.
I think that’s, that’s crucial, as is the collaboration with the sector. So that back to that earlier thought, renewable energy providers, um, the tech sector, um, and then of course industry working together to provide a signal to government in terms of the demands and the likely projections going forward.
I think is crucial. I’m not sure that that signal is that clear today, to be fair. And so we often, as a citizenry, um, criticize our government for, uh, lack of specificity on the, on a, on a particular policy energy in this case, or, um, the lack of detail. And yet I think there’s so much that industry can and needs to do to help government there.
They’re like skills actually, because, um, it’s remarkable to me to see what the New South Wales government has done in regards to the, the Institute of Applied Technology. Uh, and what, what has been the key in the last few years, I think more than anything else, has been getting industry to step up to the plate.
Instead of being critical of government, saying you need to take responsibility for repairing TAFE or creating these new skills. Uh, pathways for industry, working with large employers, working with the university sector and with the vocational sector to say, here’s a clear signal on the skills that we actually need.
Because guess what? Some of the grads coming out of TAFE today don’t have all the skills that we, we’d like to have. The first response, and I remember the meeting where this came up, the first response back from TAFE was, that’s awesome, why don’t you come and teach? Come, come to TAFE and, and, and help contribute to the curriculum.
Tell us what it is that you think our graduates don’t have and maybe pass those skills on. And a simple, that’s a very, very simple example, but this idea of working together and that signal between industry and government, I think is crucial in, in energy as well.
Yeah, that, that clarity is really powerful.
I think you’re right. I think, um, that, that’s one area for improvement. Yep. You know, and, uh, industry can sort of lead the way, you know, it’s the industry that knows what it needs.
I don’t think it’s any different, Jono, from you and I informing our leadership team on the direction a couple of years ago, it feels exactly the same.
We have like, responsibility.
Yeah, that’s right.
Look, um, we’re, we’re heading into some, uh, some specific questions here and we do have one from a subscriber. So I’d like to put that to you. Okay. Very good. Um, and, uh, and I’ll try and give it clarity on the signal as a CEO or business leader, what is the number one decision? That you could make today that might guarantee successful AI adoption in five years.
Um, the word guarantee causes me to pause. Yeah. Because I don’t know there is an answer. It’s the hard hitting question. It is a hard hitting question. So, uh, but look, my answer would be to role model, to have a point of view based on experience, to do, to do your own research. And I’m not just talking about me as a leader, but I encourage my leadership team to read broadly, to inform yourself, to understand.
to use the technology and to have an informed point of view. Um, there’s no better way to encourage your teams then to come up with ideas as to how you might use the technology or how you might then put it to work for you, um, than by getting in the trenches and working it together. Um, so I think that’s, that’s probably the number one thing that I encourage.
My team to do and, and that I think my role, the important, the role that I can play, the most impact that I think I can have.
Great advice. Thank you.
I’m not sure it guarantees success though, Jono, but anyway, we’ll see, come and ask me in five years time. See what’s happened.
I heard guarantee. That’s right.
We’ll just make a mark here. We’ll put it in the time capsule. Very good.
So look, um, this next section is that it’s called the one thing, the quickfire questions. We ask the same three quickfire questions to our. Our new breed of guests, our titans of industry. First question is, Steven, what does an MSP look like five years from today?
Uh, deeply relevant to the industries that they serve.
So I’m trying to be net with my answer, but they, they provide many of the services that you provide today but, but they’re based on small language models for argument’s sake and expert systems that go deep into the industry verticals that they, they serve.
Specific, focused. Yep. Okay, I’m down with that.
Um, what new roles do you think we will have in our leadership teams five years from now?
Ours being MSPs, large multinational tech firms.
Sure.
All of the above. All
of the above. Maybe just your, your leadership team. Yeah,
my leadership team, I think it will be, industry specialists. You might say, you might use the word consultants, but those that have spent 30 years in mining, 30 years in banking.
Got it. Okay. Attracting talent, something we invest a lot of time in as a business. Um, we try and constantly improve our reach and our brand and our gravitas in market. What would be your one piece of advice for attracting the smartest talent to your team or any team for that matter?
The higher purpose.
So every business has its mission statement and its goals, uh, and I think every business has a higher purpose. Connecting that, uh, I don’t mean intellectually, I mean emotionally, is the key I think to attracting, retaining, and developing the best talent.
I think that’s it.
I think that’s right.
I think that’s it.
Steven, um, we want to thank you for, uh, for joining us, uh, in our podcast. It’s been a wonderful chat.
I think he set a really high bar and, uh, super grateful for your time and yeah, really insightful. Thank you very much. It’s
my pleasure. Thanks.
I’ll tell you what, uh, I don’t know what we were worried about.
I think that was fantastic. Who was worried? Who was worried? I wasn’t worried.
Yeah, look, he’s fantastic chat, Steven. And he’s been a big supporter of us for a long time. Look, Microsoft are on fire with this stuff. I mean, he’s, he’s pretty humble about it. And I imagine you’d have to be pretty happy in his position watching the way Microsoft are taking this technology on.
Um, I mean that the nuclear reactor thing, right, like just crazy, just throws that in conversation like it’s nothing, you know, single use, why not?
I really loved, uh, I really love the segment on skills and his take on that and his personal support. of alternate pathways. That, that term I’m going to take everywhere with me, digital tradies.
Yeah,
that’s right.
That’s what we need. We’ve got to build the future in the, in this sector.
And giving back too, right? So not just talking about skills, but contributing and equally the partnership with government piece around utilities and what’s needed in Australia and say leading the witness, but kind of like that, right?
I mean, if, if there’s a demand and if Microsoft are acutely aware of what’s needed, then partner up and take the problem. You know, by the horns and, and get involved. Yeah,
it’s good to see some of these big players actually getting together and getting that clarity of message back to government. back to industry and, and making sure we get what we need to be successful.
Right. And look, let’s face it, five years from now, I think we are having a conversation about general intelligence. I mean, I, I love to bandy that around. I just, all I just see is, is robots walking around, uh, doing things for us, bringing the bins up.
Making my lunch.
100%.
Let’s go.
I’m ready.
No, that’s fantastic.
And I know, um, look, he set an incredibly high bar, but I know our next guest. Our next guest is going to be equally, if not, even more fantastic.
Now we’re not going to say too much, but she’s a titan of industry. Um, she is a leader, uh, similar to our, our previous leader here. Um, what more can we say?
Certainly at the cutting edge, um, doing amazing things with us, but everyone around the world, very prominent. What more can we say about our guest, Jono?
Nothing. I think we’ll keep our powder dry. You’re going to have to subscribe.
Alright, and that’s it. So please, um, look, obviously we’re going to reach you on LinkedIn.
We’re going to do that regularly. You’re not going to be able to avoid us. You’re going to find us on Spotify, on YouTube, anywhere you get your podcasts. Please subscribe and we promise every couple of weeks we’re going to keep the guests super interesting and we’re going to try and make the conversation, uh, as insightful as possible.
Let’s go. Let’s go.
